Thursday, December 30, 2010

the truth is beautiful


Jamie A. Grant said...

Sweet video! Lots of stuff going on. A very interesting message, too - and that's coming from someone that works in marketing.

Of course, how much of modern Christianity is simply marketing?

Battle said...

Yeah, I agree, modern christianity is marketing and it really shouldn't be. I think it needs to be an effective accurate communication in the world of media not marketing. And in many ways the major themes of christianity are completely opossed to the standard business model. ("go sell everything you have give it to the poor", it is harder for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle")

As a whole we need to accuratly communicate the entirety of the gospel and not emphasise one part over annother for any reason except where the bible itself has made emphasis. The most disturbing example I can think of is the topic of Hell because it is such a polarizing topic within christianity. Many people have emphasized it for so many years through the mass media and especially evangelism which is many peoples first contact with christianity that our current climate has ignored the subject to almost balance off the negative PR and I understand why but I still know that Hell exists.

I and we all need to stop looking at marketing as the method of doing God's will and seeking honest communication. The world has been lied to and manipulated enough and as the people of God we should make an effort to be honest, transparent and truthful in every situation.

Christanity can't be marketed because there's nothing to sell. Sure you can sell a bible but christians thankfully have been focused more on giving them away than selling them. Everythhing else has been anti-marketed to christians and we tell people "buying a t-shirt won't make you a better christian" I think that's been made quite clear. The only thing I think is exploited and continues to be exploited is this concept of tithing and I think we have some similar views on that Jamie so I won't get into here. And just so everyone knows I don't give alot of money to my home chruch or it's building fund.

Jamie A. Grant said...

Wow, wotta comment! Cool thoughts.

"Love your neighbour" is supposed to be the primary way to show our faith. That may not be the most common "marketing" these days but it's certainly effective...

Re: "in many ways the major themes of christianity are completely opossed to the standard business model."

Agreed, the primary goals of business don't align much with Kingdom goals. That doesn't mean that smart business has no room in Kingdom living, though.

As for the specific verses you quoted, those have to be considered along with the parable of the 10 talents (Matthew 25) and the parable of the shrewd manager (luke 16)...

Re: Truth of Hell
Oh, that is sooo funny that you chose that exact example. 'Cause I no longer believe in a place called Hell. ;)

I know of 3 different versions of hell: Pentecostal Hell, Catholic Hell, and Jewish Sheol - and I assume there are other variations. I submit that there is no such place - people either die permanently, or accept Jesus as savior and go to heaven forever.

I challenge you to review the "truth" of what we refer to as hell. You ranted about modern PR downplaying the concept of hell - but the PR in centuries before created the idea of Hell in the first place.

The idea of hell is useful for all kinds of messages: fire-and-brimstone "be saved" messages; bad guys get burned in the end; everyone lives forever, it just depends on where you go. But how true are any of those messages...?

One reference:

Battle said...

Your my best friend and so I will talk to you as such and not give you a false palitable "nice" answer. You are an idiot and whatever argument you have listened to is crazy. Have you decided on your own what is true and false? If you have you can obviously see the logical flaw in everyone decideing for themselves what is right and wrong. (cuz I can now go back to my grade school teacher and get 100% on everything because I think 2+2=5) And if you havn't Jesus talks about Hell as an actual place where people go. I don't know how much more clear it can be. I mean if it was just one apostle who was the only one to refference hell as a physical/spirtiual place than maybe we could say "Paul was on crack and his books shouldn't have been canonized" but Jesus he went there. He talked to people (human beings) who were there.

The shrewd manager is what it's all about, exactly. He Gives up everything at his current job (which is a metaphor for our life on earth) and screws over his boss so that when he gets fired he'll have an in with his new bosses (a metaphor for life after death). I wanna screw over my 10 year plan so I can be good with God.

Battle said...

Okay I read your article, still feel the same way. Even if Sheol just ment the life after death then there are times when it's discribed as a place of burning, torment, apart from God, low etc. Don't get suckered sucker.

Abe said...

It's interesting to me that (Christian Apologetics Research Mission), does not absolutely dismiss either annihilationism or universal reconciliation. Although they strongly support the traditional perspective of Hell, they are unable to throw out the other two perspectives.

Secondly, might I remind us that it is our certainties that are most likely to damage our relationships. Be cautious of that which you hold with too much certainty.

Jamie A. Grant said...

Ha! Ah, Battle. Your first response really made me laugh!

Well, I heard some persuasive arguments in the past year contradicting our Protestant notion of hell. I'm completely prepared to believe in that hell again if you can convince me. ;) And when I see a sentence written like my last one, it's no wonder people are not always attracted to Christianity...

The main video that persuaded me is here:
The other link I provided was just the most recent word study that I saw.

I guess I didn't explain myself well last time. It's not that a place of eternal burning called "hell" doesn't exist - I'll agree that it does in some way. However, people don't live forever when they go there. Their souls just burn and disappear, like firewood does in a fire. God doesn't make people live in pain forever because they didn't accept Christ. That's a better explanation of my current views.

There's also a lot more explanation required about your comments on Jesus in hell...
Really, the version I know from church is "when you die, you go to heaven or hell." People get really confused about how the final judgement day works in that equation, and then we change the topic.

But to return to my original point - with so many definitions and traditions about hell, why is the Protestant version the right one? And what if the "repent or burn forever" message is just a PR campaign from olden days?